Transform Your Cat Parenting Skills Now!

Vetsplanation's latest episode features Dr. Sugerman and Dr. Petra Černá, the Crazy Cat Vet, discussing the fundamental needs of cats and how to address common behavioral issues. Learn about the five pillars that are crucial for a cat's happiness and health, and gain practical advice on environmental enrichment and proactive care. Tune in to become the ultimate cat parent and enhance your pet's quality of life.

What You Will Learn:

• The five fundamental needs of cats: safe place, resources, play, social interaction, and smell
• How to create a cat-friendly environment to prevent behavioral issues
• Practical tips for addressing cat stress and anxiety
• The importance of proactive care versus reactive problem-solving
• How to identify signs of stress in cats and address them effectively
• The role of safe spaces and high perches in a multi-cat household
• Why it's essential to respect a cat's sense of smell and provide unscented litters
• The benefits of using puzzle toys and interactive feeders for mental stimulation
• Best practices for setting up litter boxes and feeding stations
• Insights into cat socialization and how to foster positive human-cat interactions

Resources
Crazy Cat Vet Website

Transcript

Dr. Sugerman: 0:00

Think your cat's content with just food, water, and a cozy corner to nap in? Think again. It turns out our feline friends have five fundamental needs, known as the five pillars. The safe place, ample resources, opportunities for play and predator-like behavior, social interactions, and the use of smell. Today on our podcast, we're diving into the fascinating world of cat behavior with none other than Dr. Černá, affectionately known as the Crazy Cat Vet. We'll uncover why misbehaving might just be your cat's way of saying that one of these essential needs is not being met. Join me, Dr. Sugerman, on Vetsplanation, the podcast that simplifies pet health. As we learn from Dr. Černá how truly to understand our feline companions and transform ourselves into the ultimate cat parents. Tune in and elevate your cat caregiving game. All right, welcome back to Vetsplanation everybody. Thank you so much for returning to our show. We actually have the Crazy Cat Vet on again today, Dr. Petra Černá. And we're going to be talking about cat behavior today, which I'm sure lots of cat parents are really excited to learn about. How are you doing, Dr. Černá?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 1:09

I am great. So nice to be here again and actually talk about one of my favorite topics, which is cat behavior.

Dr. Sugerman: 1:16

I feel like just cat, cat topics in general is your favorite.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 1:20

Yes, for sure. I definitely wouldn't be here talking about dogs.

Dr. Sugerman: 1:24

Right. In veterinary medicine, we talk a lot about environmental enrichment and like environmental modifications, but I feel like that's like more of a response to a problem and not really thinking about how we can set up these environmental needs for cats before it becomes a problem. So how do you think that is a different thinking?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 1:43

Yeah, I think it's really important. for example, I have been breeding cats for almost 20 years, actually.

Dr. Sugerman: 1:51

That's a long time.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 1:52

Exactly. And it's impossible to breed cats with one cat. So I have always had multi cat households. And the only time I have not been breeding cats was for about five years of my life. And it was through my internships and residencies.

Dr. Sugerman: 2:10

I can see why.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 2:11

I had no time and no money to actually provide a really good environment for multi cat household. So I took a little break there and just last year we had our first litter after five years. And I just have six kittens at home actually right now. But I bought a four bedroom house for my cats.

Dr. Sugerman: 2:33

For just you and your cats if I remember correctly, right? It's like literally just for the cats, yeah.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 2:37

I don't need that much in my life. So I have a big house. We have two catios, one for the boy, and then the girls share their own, like a huge catio as well. And when I was actually looking for my house, I was, I was like with the HOAs well, I need to, before I signed my contract, I was like, I need to make sure the HOA is going to allow that I have a catio. And I really just see like when I enter a house, I'm like, Oh my God, this is great for the cats. This is not, but I also understand that not everybody is this crazy, right? That's why I'm the Crazy Cat Vet.. Crazy cat lady.

Dr. Sugerman: 3:13

Yep.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 3:14

Because I think nobody is this crazy to go and buy a house for their cats.

Dr. Sugerman: 3:18

Yeah. Yeah. Especially like a four bedroom house for the cats, right? There's you could have maybe a bedroom.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 3:23

Yeah. Exactly. No, my, my cats definitely have plenty of space. And even when I moved to United States, actually first time, the only two things that were in my house, they're inflatable mattress, cat tree, And the nice cat litter robot. So they had way more furniture than I had when I moved in. But again, I really do not expect people to spend fortune and all their money and all their savings on their cats. But I still think we can really be very proactive and really, when we are looking at our house and maybe even considering getting a second cat or third cat into the household or even sometimes making changes when our cats age, right? We spoke about some senior care in the talk last time. So all of these are environmental modifications that we can do. And I promise they're not gonna cost you your life savings.

Dr. Sugerman: 4:17

Absolutely. What do you think about trying to be more proactive about it, though, versus just trying to respond to the situations instead?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 4:24

Yeah, I think being proactive is very, very important. So I think thinking very proactively about what, what cats are like in nature. So we all know that cats are both predators, but they also prey in nature, right? So they really want to go and hunt mice and birds and all of, all of those little critters. But also they really, are being also prey for some other larger animals. And so for example, if we have dogs in the house, we really should make sure the cats have a safe place to hide. For example, and this could be like above, ground levels. So it's somewhere very safe for the cats where the cat feels safe and knows that no one else can get there. So simply putting shelves on the wall, for example, provides a lot of safety. So I've had one client that. Whose cat had behavioral issues and was very anxious. And I was like do you have like safe places for, for the cat? Because they had a toddler at that time and they were like, yeah, yeah. We have six hiding boxes and they were all on the floor.

Dr. Sugerman: 5:32

Where the toddler can get to.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 5:34

Exactly. So the cat had absolutely no space to get to where the toddler couldn't, couldn't reach her. That's always like just trying to think where the cat would feel safe, for example. And most of these are actually like above, above the ground level. Or for example, on the wall, I have a full one wall where we have like shelves that go from the bottom to the top. And the two top ones are always the ones that are constantly full. Even though there's 20 of them, nobody lays on the intermediate levels. Everybody always lays on the top level. So it's really thinking proactively. How I can make my cat feel safe in my house.

Dr. Sugerman: 6:15

Yeah, absolutely. We even have a cat that she will only hide in the pantry. That's, we have shelves and stuff up for them. We definitely have high places, but she is one of the older cats, she's 14. So I think that getting up there higher is much harder, but we've definitely had to adapt to like, she wants to be in the pantry. She gets to go in the pantry. We have we've set up an area to where she has a little hidey hole that she can get into, and then nobody else can see her after that.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 6:40

Yeah, absolutely. When just now, when one of my cats actually was pregnant, her favorite place was really to hide in between all my, all my cooking stuff.

Dr. Sugerman: 6:50

Oh, okay.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 6:52

And I was like, this is like, you know, and I have like a lot of space for her to hide.. Exactly. And literally she would just be going and and, and sleeping in between my cooking appliances. It's, like, oh my God.

Dr. Sugerman: 7:05

You're like I'll just have to re wash these every time I use them. Fine.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 7:08

Exactly.

Dr. Sugerman: 7:10

Even if we've tried to make sure that we've been proactive about this, like, how do you think cats show stress? Do they readily show stress like, like a lot of dogs do, or do they hide it a lot?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 7:20

I think cats definitely hide things very, very well. So with stress, it could actually be that they are just hiding and they don't want to be around us or in the environment where they don't feel safe. But cats definitely can be very difficult to show us that they are stressed. They're not feeling comfortable with something as well. So I think really watching out then just subtle changes like. The cat just not being so friendly towards the owner and they don't want to cuddle as much as they used to, or really just like keeping to themselves, all of these signs could be potentially, we could see that our cats are stressed.

Dr. Sugerman: 7:58

Do you see other behavioral things such as like urinating outside the litter boxes as things like stress?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 8:05

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we really need to get away from this misconceptions of this is a mean cat. And he is peeing all over my house because he's mad, and he wants me to be mad. And this like vengeance or angry cats and all of that. I really, really dislike this type of like very negative language with cats, because I really believe that cats are very misunderstood creatures very often and cats never do anything intentionally, right? So they will not go and pee in our favorite spot on a sofa because, you know, they are upset and they want us to be upset or something. Usually for them, it's really showing us that something's wrong with them and that we need to do something to help them out.

Dr. Sugerman: 8:52

Yeah, I had one of my technicians had mentioned the other day that her cat had peed and the laundry basket. We talked more about it. I learned that it's because the cat had to get past a baby gate past where another cat was that they don't like in order to be able to get to that litter box. And talked about how it wasn't because it was the cat was angry at them or vengeful. Like it was really just that they were afraid.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 9:17

Exactly. And I think this is really, really important kind of mentality when we think about behavioral issues with cats, because I really don't think not, and not just cats, right? No animal is really born evil or, or vengeful. This is what we do as humans. And that's same with children, right? And how we develop us adult human beings. It's the experiences we have in our life and is the same for cats and other animals as well. So I really think we really, when these things are happening, we really need to look into sometimes even just very, very small things, right? For example, I know one of my cats gets very anxious when I travel for work. So I'm being very proactive about what we are doing. So we have a lot of puzzle toys and all of these things that the cats can, keep them company. I have these cameras that give them treats when I'm away so I can like still interact with them and so on. So there are so many, especially like in the times we live now, like all this technology and everything, we have so many ways to, to, actually keep our pets happy. And so I really think we just need to consider that the cat is just telling us something. For example, like you mentioned that, Oh, it's too hard for me to get to my litter box. Not because Oh, I woke up today and I think let's just pee inside my owner's..

Dr. Sugerman: 10:36

Right. Right. I'm angry because my owner is on vacation. So I'm just going to pee in their clothes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, when you're gone, you had actually mentioned that you have a lot of cats. Do you feel like cats are very social creatures?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 10:49

I think it really depends. Some of my cats are really very social.

Dr. Sugerman: 10:52

Yeah.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 10:53

So for some of my cats they really love people. Like, I just came back from vacation on Sunday, because my brother was getting married, and I came home and they were literally all four of them were sitting by the door and all want to be pet when I came home and everything. So my cats and I have pedigree cats and I've bred most of them or had them, most of them since they were little kittens. So they of course just, been around me and they love being around me and everything. So I work a lot with our kittens when they are growing to make sure they're very social, but not every cat is. And I think that's mainly with the experiences they get from life as well, because some kittens were born from a feral mom and their mom was not used to being around humans. So then it's really hard for them to learn being around humans as well. When they see their mom is afraid as well.

Dr. Sugerman: 11:47

Yeah. Do you feel like that can change over time?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 11:50

I think it can definitely change if we start early, so it's very important to definitely work with young kittens because their socialization period, around like the 6-8 weeks of age is very, very important. And so I think if you're very proactive at that age, then it can change. Very likely some of these cats will never be like super social. I want to be around humans all the time. And sometimes they want to be around that one human, right? That they trust and they, they love and they are used to, and then they come to us in the clinic, for example, and they've never seen us and it's, it's just, they're very anxious and they are very worried what's going on.

Dr. Sugerman: 12:32

What do you think about with other cats? Do you think they're very social with other cats?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 12:36

I think this is also very individual and very not just kind of cat to a cat, like this cat will be social with everybody. I have one cat that, everybody loves, she loves everybody. But then I have two cats that, they tolerate each other, but I never see them sleeping next to each other or something like that. While I see three of my other cats constantly being playing together or sleeping next to each other, but then the two other cats together but then between the one and they just don't they tolerate each other, but they definitely do not love each other. So I think this is very individual and it's not gonna be same between all the cats in the household so there is always some hierarchy right and different interactions and I also think it's same with humans, right? If I will be put in a room of 10 people, there will be some people I'm going to like more. Some people I'm going to like less.

Dr. Sugerman: 13:28

Right.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 13:28

People you're not going to be able to stand. And yeah, so I think it's same with very similar to humans as well. And this is very hard definitely to change because sometimes when cats really develop some aversion towards each other, and this could be like a past experience or it just could be how the cats smell or how they just interact together. And I think it's also pretty much like breed related as well. So some breeds definitely are more social and are happier with other cats. Some cats are more dominant than the others. I was just now judging at the cat show last weekend and there was this beautiful Devon Rex. She was a female neutered cat. And, Devon Rex is our small cats. They're like..

Dr. Sugerman: 14:12

Yeah. Tiny.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 14:14

Exactly. So she was like a three kilo cat. And she actually lived in a cattery of Maine Coons and the, the..

Dr. Sugerman: 14:23

Who are much, much bigger.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 14:24

Exactly. Who are like, 10, 10 kilos, even sometimes the big males. And it was the caregiver who are showing her. She was like she's like the boss of the family. She's like the smallest in the household. And she's the boss of all the Maine Coons. And I was like, I'm not surprised because the breed she is, she's the more dominant breed. And compared to the Maine Coons who really are often compared to being like dog-like, and I always explain to people, that's not a compliment for a cat.

Dr. Sugerman: 14:53

Yeah,

Dr. Petra Cerna: 14:55

But yeah. So it's also depends a lot on the breed you have.

Dr. Sugerman: 14:59

Yeah, You had mentioned about like your cats sleeping together. Do you feel like when they sleep together and they eat together, does that mean that they like each other or does that mean they more just tolerate each other?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 15:10

I think the sleeping and I have some of them, especially I have like mom and daughter and they really like sleep absolutely like touching each other and so close to each other and they're very comfortable with that. However, when it comes to food. Food is very, very important and it's a key environmental resource that we have for cats. So I still, I do not feed my cats in the same place. So they all get their own plate and they are all fed in the kitchen. But they don't have their bowls next to each other because I think, sharing food is not nice for the cat. So we have different dry food. We have different stations throughout the house. And then when I feed them canned food, I have it in different spots as well. So I do not feed my four cats in the same spot.

Dr. Sugerman: 15:55

Yeah. So if they are like eating from the same bowl, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's because they like each other. Really, they're just tolerating it for the moment.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 16:03

Exactly. They tolerate it for the moment because they have no other options. I think if we gave them an opportunity to eat in different spaces, they probably would. The sleeping, I think it's a different story because, they choose to sleep next to each other. Nobody's forcing them to do that. But I think that's us as caregivers for the cats in multi cat households. I think the feeding is actually one of the most common triggers for intercats tension, because that's a really important, like key resource. And the same thing with toilets, right? So we have the key environmental resources like food, water, toilet, scratching areas, play areas, and like resting or sleep areas as well. And we really should be providing options for these cats to either be together. So if all my cats want to sleep on the sofa together, they have the option, but they also have the option to sleep separately.

Dr. Sugerman: 16:55

With the toilets, you're talking about the litter boxes. How many litter boxes do you recommend per cat?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 17:01

Yeah, so we always recommend kind of the numbers of cats plus one, and I think it's really important that people just don't consider the numbers of the litter boxes, but also where the litter boxes are, because I was dealing with a consult where we had a cat, it was urinating outside of the litter box. And it was, the owner was like, Oh my god, I have four litter boxes for two cats. I don't know what else to do. And then they were all in the corridor, in the same spot, and it was very stressful for the cats to go to the litter box when the other cat was in the other litter box just next to it, for example. It was also in a very busy area. Nobody wants to pee on a main street.

Dr. Sugerman: 17:41

Right. Right.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 17:42

I wouldn't want to do that either. So I think it's really important that we provide a very safe space for the food, for the sleeping, and for the litter boxes as well.

Dr. Sugerman: 17:53

Okay. With the litter boxes too, do you feel like they should have different types of litter in the litter boxes? All the same types of litter?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 18:00

I think it depends on the preference for the cat. So I think if we are seeing any issues with the cat trying to urinate outside of the litter box, we should definitely offer more options. I know it's not very popular having these like silicone based litters. A lot of cats actually don't like it. It's very crunchy. It's not nice to their paws. I actually just tried touching it myself and it wasn't very nice. So a lot of cats might not like those but owners seem to really like those. I personally i'm not a huge fan because they don't clump and like for four cats I have to really replace it every two, three days so it doesn't smell and everything. But for a single cat household, a lot of owners or caregivers will, will like those. But I think it's important that we provide options if we believe that the cat might not like the current litter. I have just one type of litter at home. Everybody is used to it. I am lucky I don't have any urinating outside of the litter issues, even with the multi cat household, but definitely something to consider. Also, one thing that's very important is, it's really now popular to start using these scented litters. And it's really not great for these cats. Cats have very sensitive sense of smell. It's actually one of their most developed senses and it is very important for them to feel comfortable in those litter boxes. Plus, more and more cats are developing lower airway disease like asthma and these scented litters can cause issues with that as well. So I always recommend unscented litters.

Dr. Sugerman: 19:34

What do you think about these new litters that change colors to be able to tell you like if there's blood in it or I don't even remember all the things but like it'll change colors for different things.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 19:44

Yeah, I think it's potentially useful for cats that have lower urinary tract issues. So we can earlier recognize because it's, I think hard, especially in multi cat households, for me, I have these like little robots. So it actually monitors how often my cats pee and everything and who comes into the litter box and when. But otherwise if I just had regular litters, it would be really hard for me to say like, how much is my cat peeing. And is it small or large pile of pee and so on and so on. So I think this might be helpful for our patients or cats that have some history of lower urinary tract disease potentially. So owners can be more proactive when they see blood there.

Dr. Sugerman: 20:24

Okay, and what do you think about covered litter boxes versus open litter boxes versus robot litter boxes?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 20:30

Yeah, I think that's all great questions because I think, again, it comes down to the cat's preference, right? So some cats are totally fine. They prefer closed litter boxes because they feel safer in them. On other hand, a lot of cats, especially older ones with like degenerative joint disease, they might struggle to get into big closed litter box. So they might want to have a very, low edge litter box for them so it's easier for them to get into those. And then the litter boxes, I know I've had them for probably 15 plus years, but I know I recommended it to a friend of mine who has two cats and she was like, none of the cats would ever go into it. So I think it's again, very, very personal for those cats. The one thing I absolutely dislike and it's starting to be like now really popular are these litter boxes that you actually have to jump up and go down and then jump up again. I understand that it doesn't make like as much mess. And I, I have to vacuum four times a week with all the hair and the litter I have all over my house to keep it clean because I'm definitely a clean freak. But it's something, I just feel it's so unnatural, especially older cats with some comorbidities, degenerative joint disease, like about 80-90 percent over the age of 10 of these cats will have some degree of degenerative joint disease. So imagine someone build you, I don't know how they call it now in English, they run it at Olympics. You have to jump..

Dr. Sugerman: 21:58

Oh, yeah the hurdles the hurdles. Yeah. Yeah

Dr. Petra Cerna: 22:00

Imagine someone built you a hurdle in front of your bathroom and you had to go through it before you were able to pee. I think that's also something to really consider for especially older cats.

Dr. Sugerman: 22:14

Yeah, I think that they, I've heard a lot of people using those because they have dogs and they don't want the dogs getting into the litter boxes. Because they can definitely get through the doors and everything, but I feel like they don't really get into the tops of them.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 22:27

Yeah, so they actually have these now, like you can actually buy microchip cat doors. So I think building the litter box into kind of like a, a closet, where the cat can only pass through or having a cat door through there or smaller hole that the dog cannot get through. I probably think that would be an easier solution than building all of this for the cats to, to get into. And I think it's probably fun for younger cats sometimes if they're okay with it, but for the older cats, I just don't think it's great.

Dr. Sugerman: 22:56

Yeah, so you gotta remember that young cat's going to turn into an older cat, so You might as well have those things in place beforehand, be proactive about it, not, not responding to it.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 23:06

Exactly.

Dr. Sugerman: 23:07

We have this thing in veterinary medicine we've called the five pillars. But what are the environmental needs of these cats?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 23:14

Yeah. So I think, we always talk about these five pillars when it comes to us respecting cats and their natural behavior and everything. So we've discussed the number one that is the most important and it was the providing the safe place, right? So we already discussed that a lot. We spoke about providing those environmental key resources like food, water, toilets, and so on. Then very important, and I think this is something people really underestimate. So cats really are predatory species, and they really love to play and fulfill their kind of predatory behavioral. And this doesn't mean that I have to go buy a live mouse and let it..

Dr. Sugerman: 23:51

Yeah.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 23:52

Run in the house for my cats to play with and everything. But I think providing a lot of toys and opportunities, especially for younger cats to play with. And then we also try to focus on the fourth pillar is providing positive and consistent and also predictable human to cat social interactions. So cats do not like changes, right? So suddenly, if they are used to one human and now there's a new baby, for example, they don't want to suddenly that the baby runs to them and tries to lift them when they were never used to that before. So we need to always try to be predictable for the cats and not just suddenly start doing things the cats were not used to. And the other, the last pillar is providing safe environment that also respects the importance of the cat senses, especially the sense of smell. That's what we already spoke about, right? Like using those scented litters or a lot of people are using those diffusers or, I do not use my, I only use perfume in a room like where my cats are, I have one room where my cats are not allowed to, so I usually, when I want to put perfume on, I usually do it in that room and so on, because like I said, smell is one of the most developed senses in cats, so they should be respectful of that as well.

Dr. Sugerman: 25:17

I do find so many cats that come in with asthma attacks and when I start talking to the pet parents about it, finding out, that they have plugins or these scented candles, or using incense, or scentsy, those scentsy things now. Yeah, I find that they've done that right before their cat had an asthma attack, and that's how they found out that their cat had asthma.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 25:38

Yeah, exactly. Or smokers, right? So smoking environment, which I think it's less common in US compared to Europe, for example. So I feel like here, most almost nobody smokes inside. But yeah, I..

Dr. Sugerman: 25:52

I do find a lot of people who smoke pot inside, and I, so I, so I do find cats having asthma attacks from that as well.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 26:00

Yeah. And I think that's probably a big concern too, because of course that's toxic to cats as well. So we definitely, that's another concern as well for a lot of those, a lot of those cats.

Dr. Sugerman: 26:11

Yeah. Do you have any other tips for parents so they can be the best pet parents?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 26:15

Yeah. I think, we spoke about the play as well that I mentioned and those like scratching trees and just, I think cats, when it comes to scratching. I think scratching might be another issue people that do not like to deal with. So now I can give a long speech yet, actually, despite having a scratching tree in every single room of my house and, providing what we call, because some cats have preference for horizontal scratching and some cats for vertical scratching. So really providing different options to the cats, but then it seems that my cats are confusing our newest sofa from Ikea with..

Dr. Sugerman: 26:53

Oh, no.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 26:54

Is a natural behavior of a cat. So we really are strictly against declawing. I am not a fan of caregivers putting those..

Dr. Sugerman: 27:04

The soft paws?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 27:05

Exactly the soft paws. If you don't want your cat to scratch your furniture, I think you should not get a cat because this is a natural cat behavioral. Absolutely natural, and that's what cats do. They actually have scents in their, in their paw pads. So they have scented glands there. So they actually also are releasing some kind of scent with that. They are doing that same when they are rubbing with their cheeks as well. So that's also how they release a kind of smell into, and then how they mark their territory as well. So I think all of these are really, really important. And I think, we should provide a lot of scratching opportunities, and we should provide a lot of play opportunities as well. We actually are because a lot of people are often playing with like lasers and stuff with their cats. And we actually are these days recommending not to do that because cats can never catch that. So it can cause a frustration in those cats as well. So we usually really like those like kind of feather toys or something that we can play with the cats and they can actually catch it. So they have, they get some reward afterwards. One of my kittens, actually, she loves to fetch. So even, you know. She literally, I never even taught her. Like I remember one time I was in bed and I was like really tired and she was a single kitten and I just like really wanted to sleep and she like was like a little bit bothering me and I just threw this ball and I thought she was gonna like chase and play with it. And she literally she just ran and brought it back to me and wanted to play again and I was like oh my god. And I, I'm the type of person who I feel like cats teach us and we shouldn't be teaching cats tricks and stuff, but yeah, she definitely loves that and all my cats really love to play with, with those feather toys and I have kind of activity boards with treats as well. So especially when I'm leaving, it gets completely full. And when I come home from like a weekend or something, it's always empty. So it just gives them kind of some stimulation because I keep my cats indoor only because we live by a main... two main roads, actually. I am a little bit worried for them. They have the catio, so they have access outside and they love being there, but unfortunately they can't just roam outside. So I'm really trying to provide some environmental enrichment for them where they can really satisfies those kind of predatory needs.

Dr. Sugerman: 29:35

With the activity boards, where, where do you get them from? Do you just get them on Amazon or..

Dr. Petra Cerna: 29:40

Yeah, exactly. Amazon or other, like Chewy or like all of these companies. I like, there is one, I think it's from Trixie. It's like a very, because I tried throughout the years, like multiple and sometimes if they're not sturdy enough, I've had the cats just go and..

Dr. Sugerman: 29:55

Just it.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 29:55

Their paws and knock it all over. But I have one that's like a little labyrinth and it has four different sessions. So one of my cats doesn't really figure out how to get it from the plastic ball, but they are like three other options where she gets the treats from. So I think that's also quite important. And I think probably one more thing we didn't discuss that much was just with the environmental needs and the key resources, we also shouldn't be keeping like food and water next to the litter boxes. So I actually have a litter box and like I said, I have a big house, so it's a, it's a different story, but I have a litter box in one place and water fountain in a different space and their food bowls in different space as well. Really just providing these resources in different spaces.

Dr. Sugerman: 30:43

Are you okay with having food and water in the same place?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 30:46

I prefer not to cause my cats also, we have water fountains and they love playing with the water as well.

Dr. Sugerman: 30:51

Oh, okay.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 30:52

yeah,

Dr. Sugerman: 30:53

I haven't had any cats who play with the water yet. So...

Dr. Petra Cerna: 30:55

Oh my God. Yeah. I literally spent a fortune on finding a water fountain that the cats wouldn't run out because when there was the water bowl next to it.. Like literally I, I, my, my place was flooded every other day because the cats just like love to play with the water and they were like spraying it out on each other and stuff paws and just like playing with it. So it took me like a really long time, I think good six to eight months to find one that's like ceramic. And it's the water is running all the time, but there is like not a huge bowl. So it's very, the bowl that is there, it's like on the top and it's pretty flat. So they cannot do too much mess with it. And now they're actually taking it off the markets. I ordered five of them to just keep them because that was like a huge issue for us. But I just even think the food still should be in a different space and water. And if you're very limited, it's probably one thing we can allow, but I wouldn't be putting it like if I had to decide if I have to put, because I'm limited with space, if I have to put water and food next to each other, but it's far from the litter box, then that's probably what I would choose. But ideally, we want to just place these separately, especially we have more cats, right? Because maybe the one cat is drinking. The other cat wants to come and eat. So that's why also these should be in different places.

Dr. Sugerman: 32:14

Nice. Okay.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 32:15

The only exceptions where we want to hoard these resources for cats is when we have older sick cats, for example, where they are not moving so much. So cats with like degenerative joint disease or cognitive dysfunctions, so dementia. So we want to keep those key resources in their very close proximity. So that's only one time where I really try keeping everything close to each other and that's for the comfort for the cat.

Dr. Sugerman: 32:42

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Can I ask real quick, what do you do about your cats ruining your Ikea sofa?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 32:49

Yeah. I just live with it.

Dr. Sugerman: 32:53

I assudme that.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 32:54

I do not spend too much money on my sofas because it is just, it is just what it is. So yeah.

Dr. Sugerman: 33:01

Yeah, we have the same thing between like kids and dogs and cats. We're just, it is what it is.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 33:06

Yeah, I am lucky enough that I, nobody like, urinates in an.. Uh, you know, and we don't even call it now like inappropriate places because it seems when it's, it's not an inappropriate place for the cat. So that's what we are really trying to, again, the language and the terminology when we describe cats and talk about cat behavioral and behavioral problems. It's not.. At that moment for that cat, it seems appropriate. So we just no longer call it like inappropriate urination. We usually try to say in an abnormal, place or something like that or undesired by the owner for example, some undesired urination, for example. But, yeah, because the cat urinates there because it's appropriate at that time for that cat there for all the reasons we mentioned before. And yeah, I just unfortunately live with it. So I do not spend too much money my sofas. I actually really desperately need a new one now, but I'm going to replace it when the little kittens leave, because also the kittens, when they are tiny, they want to try to jump up. Sometimes it doesn't work out. So they just like hang there by their claws and then lift their butts up there too. So I'm just like, maybe we'll get one after the kittens leave.

Dr. Sugerman: 34:23

I know that they do have furniture that is pretty hardy. We got some, I think it's microfiber or something like that, but we have a Great Dane who she runs literally in her sleep constantly. I say that that's how she gets most of her exercise because it's, she just runs all the time in her sleep, but she has such big nails too. It doesn't matter how short I keep them, right? So she like constantly is like almost ripping up the, the furniture. And the sofa we had before she'd rip up constantly versus the one we have now, I have one, one tiny little rip. I feel like there are ways to get around this.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 34:57

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I might now need to look into that. I just found out that there is like a special bed sheets that do not like keep the hair on it. Because always like I love summer and I love warm weather and I love sun and I love all of this. But the only thing I do not like about summer is that all my cats are shedding.

Dr. Sugerman: 35:15

Yes, exactly.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 35:18

So I'm actually like considering getting like a Devon Rex or a Burmese. One of those that like do not shed as much because I have ragdolls and British shorthair and that's literally, and I bought them and everything. But it's, it's just insane how much hair I have. I vacuum like nonstop and still. Yeah.

Dr. Sugerman: 35:37

We actually have, so we have a Labrador and a Great Dane and then the cats. So the Great Dane doesn't shed at all, but the Labrador sheds constantly. She actually sheds more than the cats do, I think.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 35:49

Yeah, I know. And it's also this like tiny, the hair that's sticks into everything. Yeah. I actually love labradors and my brother has a golden retriever. So I think that's like probably one of the few breeds I could imagine if I had to get a dog someday for some reason. Yeah.

Dr. Sugerman: 36:05

Yeah, they're pretty good. I think they're, she's, she's really good with the cats for sure. Yeah. All right, Dr. Černá, do you have anything else you want to share with us real quick?

Dr. Petra Cerna: 36:14

I think that's probably, I think we've covered, I think I could, probably we could be discussing cat behavioral for like hours and hours.

Dr. Sugerman: 36:22

Right.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 36:22

I think we probably covered most of the important points.

Dr. Sugerman: 36:26

Perfect. Thank you again, and everybody can find Dr. Černá at the crazycatvet.com. If I remember correctly, right? Yep. Yep. We'll put a link to it at the bottom of our show notes, and we'll be talking to Dr. Černá again, more about cats in the future. So thank you again.

Dr. Petra Cerna: 36:41

Thank you. And I look forward to talking about cats in the future again.

Dr. Sugerman: 36:45

Perfect, thanks. As we wrap up today's enlightening conversation with Dr. Černá, we've only just scratched the surface of understanding the complex world of our feline friends. Remember that being the ultimate cat parent goes beyond the basics. It's about tuning into the five pillars that fulfill their lives. Security, resources, play, social interaction, and smell. We hope you're walking away with these insights, not only to deepen your bond with your cat, but also to improve their well being. A big thank you to Dr. Černá, as always, the Crazy Cat Vet, for sharing her expertise and passion with us. Don't forget to show your cat some extra love today and pay attention to those five critical needs. Next, we will be revisiting pancreatitis just in time for our Father's Day weekend when all the barbecues come out. Thank you again to Shawn Hyberg for the great work you do on the editing of the podcast, and to Kelly Dwyer for the great work you do on the website. Until then, keep your pets happy, healthy, and safe. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.